Plone 5.1 translations

This release ships with lots of translation issues. If you switch the site to German and look only at one of the core functionalies of Plone - the folder contents view - then you will find missing translations (or even internal IDs show up) at every corner, in very popup. A dozen or so related issues exist on Github but you ship a final major release which this obvious usability bug). There is no justification for this. Either take languages out of the release if there are too many translations missing or get it fixed before a release. And stop trolling with being a volunteer project. A product with a partly translated UI is an defect project independent of being a commercial or an open-source project. Again, there is a large divide between being the claim "enterprise cms" and being a volunteer project. Plone users or potential Plone users don't care about the project organization. They see a partly defect or unfinished product and draw their own conclusions. This is so hard to understand?

-aj

If you'd like the translations to be better, I think your time would be better spent working on adding translations rather than complaining. Sure you're right that missing translations look bad, but wishing that someone else would take more responsibility to fix it won't make it happen.

3 Likes

The point is that you are shipping a defect application from the users prospective and the major point is you don't care about quality in the release process. And stop again with this stupid: you can fix it. Please tell "fix the translations yourself" directly into the face of someone trying out Plone and again: please fix your ignorant attitude with regard to end users.

-aj

@zopyx you can equally argue that you and other german users did not care enough to beta test and submit patches. I'm guessing that plone is incomplete in many languages. Should german be more important than the others? Only if german project memebers do the beta testing.

So is German translation at 100% your reference for quality? Come on!

That the release process should give some warning and time to translators to update them that's out of question, but blaming the quality of a whole release to the state of a single translation... should we not release until German is at 100% while, say Spanish and French already are?

We should put some statistics on the state of them, but if one cares about translations, doing it as a community work is not caring, paying a translator to review it is caring (my wife is a professional translator and I've been for +10 years involved in translations).

If you look at other projects, like the GNOME project you have not only this website:

https://l10n.gnome.org

Which gives you a crystal clear status of each language translation status:

https://l10n.gnome.org/releases/gnome-3-28/

But not only that, they do time based releases (every 6 months) and they do have a string freeze for a period of weeks before the final release date, so that translators can update the translations knowing that nearly to no strings will be changed prior to the release:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Schedule

As we are probably not going to switch overnight to time based releases, we could clearly signal that two to three weeks after any point release a new release will be made focused on early feedback as well as translations.

This is far more constructive to just your usual rantings...

The Gnome language translation status page looks very useful!

I am talking Chinese or am I talking to walls?

I made my point very clear. I am aware of at least two organizations and companies having an eye on Plone. The evaluate Plone themselves. There is no Plone solution provider involved. Don't you see a problem here when they try Plone 5.1.0 and are faced with a half-baked German UI? This has nothing to do with me and nothing with my own customers and projects. It's all about product experience for people trying and evaluating Plone. So hard to understand? Perhaps you can't follow because EN is your native language?

Would you accept (as a German or a French) accept a version of Windows, Word, Office or whatever with a wild mixture of English and non-English wording? Everyone would consider this an major (usability) error. Would you agree on that? And that's actually happening with Plone 5.1.0. There is no problem with some missing translations here and there but missing translations are a major foul and there is clearly a problem in the quality assurance or release process or is your statement that you want to ship stuff in some arbitrary state and don't care much about quality. And again: don't point at me or customers or solution providers. The release process has a problem here.

-aj

1 Like

Yes, just my usual rantings.

Just your usual lack of quality assurance...this the "enterprise CMS Plone 5.1.0" that you hand out to everyone, to people evaluating Plone:

http://nimb.ws/deaHNR

http://nimb.ws/XQDVaW

http://nimb.ws/zRuEoW

http://nimb.ws/7KLpiM

http://nimb.ws/2Lont3

http://nimb.ws/Dj7ROi

http://nimb.ws/1WJ5F6

http://nimb.ws/hQz8Gj

So is this professional in your opinion?
Is this the "digital experience" of Plone.

-aj

Every smaller language always has this issue, always. So aj: you mean that everybody else shall keep on waiting for 5.1 'for ages' because Germans have not translated stuff? 'We' dont have the luxury of having others doing the translation for us.

But: While we are at the subject:
What is the 'correct' way to translate 'core' ?

Do one need to generate a new po-file in plone.app.locales (or just edit the one there).

What is the easiest way to find out where a translation comes from
(for example: the password reset mail is in english)

No definitely not, not professional at all, I would never do that myself... to write in such a tone in an online forums.

If for 15 years you have been unable to write a single respectful, professional as you seem to prefer because that feels more business-y right?, message, have you ever thought about stopping?

2 Likes

To get an overview of how far translations are for a the plone domain, go to a checkout of plone.app.locales, go to the plone/app/locales/locales directory where the plone.pot file is, and do this:

i18ndude list -p plone

Currently, German is at 83 percent. Together with Japanese, that puts German at the ninth place, if you include English.

This would need to be done for all domains, currently seven, but the plone one is by far the biggest.
You can also get an html table version:

i18ndude list -p plone -t

It seems good for us to do that and copy the result in a post to community.plone.org a few days or a week before a new release.
Let me post it here now. Note that I don't know who came up with the different 'tiers' in the table. That is hardcoded somewhere in i18ndude.
Well, this forum does not like me pasting raw html. Let's do the list instead then:

$ i18ndude list -p plone
Messages: 2798

Tier 1:

100% - English (en)
90% - French (fr)
90% - Italiano (it)
83% - Deutsch (de)
100% - Español (es)
96% - Nederlands (nl)
75% - Chinese Simplified (zh-cn)
95% - Traditional Chinese (zh-tw)
83% - Japanese (ja)
10% - 한국어 (ko)
88% - Português do Brasil (pt-br)
74% - Russian (ru)
55% - Polish (pl)
49% - Türkçe (tr)
13% - Thai (th)
37% - Arabic (ar)

Tier 2:

60% - English (sv)
56% - Suomeksi (fi)
82% - Danish (da)
47% - Português (pt)
58% - Romanian (ro)
35% - Magyar (hu)
39% - עברית (he)
40% - Bahasa Indonesia (id)
66% - Czech (cs)
27% - Ελληνικά (el)
51% - Norsk (no)
45% - Vietnamese (vi)
45% - Bulgarian (bg)
9% - Croatian (hr)
36% - Lithuanian (lt)
52% - Slovenčina (sk)
0% - tl (tl)
77% - Slovenian (sl)
22% - Serbian (sr)
60% - Catalan (ca)
28% - Latviešu (lv)
81% - Українська (uk)
7% - Hindi (hi)

Tier 3:

52% - Afrikaans (af)
3% - Albanian (sq)
8% - Armenian (hy)
100% - Basque (eu)
8% - Bengali (bn)
18% - Burmese (my)
15% - Chinese(HongKong) (zh-hk)
50% - Esperanto (eo)
17% - Estonian (et)
17% - Furlan (fu)
38% - Galego (gl)
15% - Georgian (ka)
15% - Kannada (kn)
22% - Macedonian (mk)
8% - Nynorsk (nn)
18% - Persian (fa)
8% - Telugu (te)
18% - Welsh (cy)
8% - tamil (ta)

4 Likes

Read exactly what I wrote. You are also not getting the point.

@mauritsvanrees

Thanks for the numbers. Only 6 languages have a coverage of > 90%, only 4 languages > 95%.

And here is the Plone marketing claim:

"""
Available in more than 40 languages and counting! Easily handles Chinese, Japanese, Greek, and even right-to-left languages such as Arabic and Hebrew. Plone documentation is multilingual too!

"""

Draw your own conclusions...marketing vs. reality...there is a huge gap.

-aj

Get over it and contribute something useful to the discussion.

What do think would happen if we agreed and said: yes, we will wait with 5.1 until someone (else than the only one that is complaining about this) has translated thing to german.

You could probably translate what is missing in less time than it takes to complain (but maybe it is not equally fun ? )

Dude, I did a ton of translations for 5.0 - just if you think that there were no translation contributions from side. And again: you have zero sense for the visibility regarding this aspect for people trying out Plone.

-aj

The chart show clearly how poor the translation rate is. Again guys, please come to the point to see the problem here that there is huge issue between the marketing promoting a professional CMS vs. reality. And a mixture of ids, native wording and untranslated english terms is a usability problem for users, for potential users.

I would like to remind you ALL that we require adhesion to the Plone Code of Conduct

This means we will not allow insults or harassment. Let's not make this personal.

In fact: in some countries, it is quite OK to keep a lot of things in english (especially the admin interface, since higher education is done in english anyway and frases like 'compile bundle' has no 'understandable translation'.

Anyway: I did update a lot of the norwegian translation, but committed to collective/plone.app.locales ( just as I was about to leave for the weekend ).
In fact, I thought I committed to a fork… please forgive me …

Not an excuse...even Microsoft found translations for hard to translate terms. Translations are very important. The expectation that a typical Plone user would speak english is wrong. Look at universities where you will a bunch of secretaries (usually of older age) that do not speak English - this differs by country.

Plone Foundation Code of Conduct