Changed documentation locations

Your help would be appreciated... let me know what you think these two lines should be

I'm sorry, I don't know much about the possibilities here. I know about Apache redirections; there, it would be possible to redirect e.g. ^/documentation(/.*)?$ to https://new.domain/new/root$1 and thus preserve the information from the optional bracket in a very generic way. Perhaps the error page on the target system new.domain can make use of a request variable (e.g. old_location) and tell about the (failed, in this case) redirection.

For the records, and hoping for a better solution:
http://plone.org/documentation/faq/plone-read-only-mode (found on https://bugs.launchpad.net/collective.buildout/+bug/712204) now redirects to the documentation root for Plone 5.

There seems to be a copy on http://www.tuxdroid-community.org/archives/oldsite/tuxisalive.com_httrack_copy/plone.org/documentation/faq/plone-read-only-mode.html; thus, there is a chance to find the contents of http://plone.org/PATH in http://www.tuxdroid-community.org/archives/oldsite/tuxisalive.com_httrack_copy/plone.org/PATH. For a redirection, we should have a destination which is controlled by the Plone community, of course.

The generic redirection is there because there is no longer a documentation folder in plone.org

Anyone can submit PRs for new redirections at: https://github.com/plone/ansible-playbook/blob/plone-org/local-configure.yml#L164

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Alternatively, someone (you?) could submit a PR for the docs that includes the material you found. https://docs.plone.org/about/contributing.html

We could change the redirection include the rest of the path, so that plone.org/documention/backup would go to docs.plone.org/backup regardless if we already have this content or just not under the same url. Then we could just handle all the redirecting in the docs repo. @svx could we add redirects inside the docs?

But maybe it's enough to point the user to a page where we say what to do, like @tkimnguyen suggested making PRs for the Ansible playbook. So adding a page in the docs and pointing to it.

But the broken links from the docs to old plone.org we should fix soon.
@svx don't we have a link checker in the docs already, or is it only for internal links?

@MrTango what do you mean with:

???

As for checking links of docs.plone.org, we do run a linkcheck over the whole docs, currently the check is 'only' reporting and not failing, that has simply to do with the reason that we still have way too many.

Here for example is the ticket regarding plone.org -> https://github.com/plone/documentation/issues/618

The situation is far from perfect, we know that.

At least for plone.org this has to do with the reason that for various reasons the new plone.org was released in kind of a hurry and ppl forgot or do not had the resources to do that more carefully. One of the many perks in a small community where a small amount of ppl doing too much at the same time, but that is a different story. :slight_smile:

So yeah, I guess we have to deal with the fact that we will not get it perfect, taken the amount of resources [people and time] which is sad, true but that is how it is right know ....

Usually we try to fix a couple of broken links, which every new release of the docs, but like I said we have a lot of them and thus it will take time. It would be helpful already if ppl stand up and help with that.

I do not understand the other part of the posting, everyone can run a scraper over a website and host that copy, there is not much we can fix there.

IMHO for now what we have is not really cool, but still good enough, you end up on the main site of docs.plone.org, that is better than ending up on old.plone.org.

Mapping all the old content to the right places of docs.plone.org also brings some disadvantages, for example we started to improve the use experience by moving stuff to different locations.

What we maybe could do is a new template on docs.plone.org and configure the webserver in a way that, lets say if your request is coming from a plone.org redirect you get the new template telling you that docs.plone.org is the 'new place' bla bla bla ....

:slight_smile:

Yes we need just some more helping hands here, so lets improving the situation by guiding people and give them an easy way to help.

Lets add a page to the docs, with the needed information like the place where to add redirects, as @tkimnguyen mentioned above. On this page we can explane how they might find the missing docs in docs.plone.org and that they should help by adding redirects to plone.org to the new content.

In case we move things around in the docs, do we have a solution there to redirect inside the docs, like Plone does by default?
We need something or we will produce more dead links from outside in time.
So we need at least a workflow for that. @svx do have any idea how we should handle this?

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I'm not sure about the functionality of that ansible-playbook and the local-configure.yml file. Does this require merging, deployment, reload or the like?

IMO, for documentation we should have something much more agile.
Zope allows to traverse the subpath. Why not have Python methods which do so, and check for matches in a relational table?
E.g., we could have a documentation script, living in the root of https://plone.org, which of course knows about its name, and checks the table for an exact match for documentation and the subpath. If there is such a match, a redirection to the new location is performed (Plone 4 version, I'd say, because those old pages will almost certainly refer to Plone 4 or earlier). If there is no such exact match, (after a little "sorry" message) a form could be presented where the user can suggest a redirection target; administrators can view those targets and choose the best one.

Redirections which swallow path information (like /products to /download) are evil and should be removed. They are worse than nothing.

One more broken link: https://docs.plone.org/4/products/example.archetype/
(from https://docs.plone.org/4/en/old-reference-manuals/archetypes/a_simple_at_product/introduction.html)

I don't know the new location, thus I can't create a pull request.
Anyway, IMO we should be able to collect broken links (and the new locations) without them; see my suggestion about the database-based solution.

One more broken link: https://docs.plone.org/4/en/tutorial/customization-for-developers
(from https://docs.plone.org/4/en/old-reference-manuals/archetypes/a_simple_at_product/view_template.html)

If someone else were able to file issues in the docs repo that would be great! Tobias, thank you for finding these, but unless they're tracked at github.com/plone/documentation/issues your detective work will get lost in the shuffle.

Wildcard has kindly donated regular SiteImprove.com reports for plone.org and plone.com, and I'm actively fixing issues on plone.com but haven't enough time to manage the fixes for plone.org. But I see quickly above that Sven is running broken link checks on docs.plone.org already. I don't know who's actively fixing what's found in those reports.

Ok, I created an issue for the broken links.

Additionally I created another issue about that RDB-based redirection solution I sketched above.

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why you don't just install Products.RedirectionTool in the Plone site? that's the right tool for the task.

and BTW, this is still pending:

But this is about site-internal redirections, right? AFAICS, our main problem is to make those URLs https://plone.org/documentation/..., https://developer.plone.org/... and the like work again, by providing useful redirections ... and those are cross-site.

yes, you're right: I just tested and Products.RedirectionTool deals with internal redirections only.

There is another issue: Broken links in docs.plone.org

However, here are several comments collecting broken links, so I'll keep it that way.

Broken link: http://www.zope.org/Members/Zen/howto/FormVariableTypes, found on https://docs.plone.org/4/en/develop/plone/forms/manual.html#more-information (Plone 4 and Plone 5 versions).
The "new" location is http://old.zope.org/Members/Zen/howto/FormVariableTypes; I'll see into creating a pull request.
Perhaps it would be possible to establish a subpath-preserving permanent redirection from http://www.zope.org/Members/ to http://old.zope.org/Members/; who would be able to do this?

Lots of links are broken. If you go to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/plone?page=188&sort=newest&pagesize=15 for example and try to go to each question and each link provided by the users you would be surprised.

If you're really interested in collecting all possible broken links, maybe the stackexchange api will be nice. Get the ids from all questions tagged Plone in https://api.stackexchange.com/docs/advanced-search#order=desc&sort=activity&tagged=plone&filter=default&site=stackoverflow&run=true, use these ids to get the answers in https://api.stackexchange.com/docs/answers-on-questions and the comments https://api.stackexchange.com/docs/comments-on-answers and then extract all links from all answers and comments and check which one of them is broken.

The https://dev.plone.org/plone/ticket/6805 are now all broken, see Are we still using https://dev.plone.org/timeline? for an explanation.

@hvelarde it's ok... if people want RedirectionTool in core, they can just install CastleCMS
:slight_smile: