I doubt that is possible. A fragment tile is XML (schema) which can be copied from Dexterity editor, a 'standard py file' and a standard (TAL) template.pt file. All of them can be edited TTW and new can be added on a running site.
By the way: I keep all my fragment tiles in all themes, but hide them in manifest.cfg. So if I need a fragment I have made before, I can just enable it.
I watched the next.js conf keynote this morning, was held/recorded in October. What you see very clearly there is that the high code Developer UX experience is open source. And that the 'low code' feedback / PM/UX/designer tools are subscription / commercial based. (next.js 'live') Similar story 2+ years ago with the Gatsby live preview.
I don't think there are any great low code open source platforms [edit: anymore], for the same reason that there is no feedback mechanism built into the Plone Community: It is almost impossible to make a business case out of this if you don't charge money for all the work surrouding the TTW product. Otherwise it is not sustainable.
The TTW feedback loop is between Plone integrators and their customers end users if/when the customer wants TTW functionality of if the integrator has time/speed/efficiency benefits. But then the integrator becomes the end user and you have low code platforms like Wix, Mendix, etc.
yes exactly. Anything I can do as an integrator to make non technical customers do themselves is going to cost more form them and for me to implement and potentially make me less money short term. Long term a simple to understand low code system would only make money from hosting not from consulting so further doesn't benefit integrators. It could make Plone more popular by allowing people in organisaations to get more done without consultants which eventually grows the pie for everyone but then again it might not? And perhaps there are other ways make it popular while keeping it complex enough for integrators to make money?
In fact I'd go further and say there aren't many community open source platforms with great UX for similar reasons. It requires UX people to tell developers what to do and to ignore developer intuition of making something more complicated. and that can only come from a top down organisation.
I see the use case, but this also leads to sitting on your tiles (fragments, schemas, python), having real tile packages published would be my goal to grow whats posible together. I knwo quite some people are out there using Mosaic tiles or fragments a lot but only inside there projects.
Your use case will still work, but will be a bit more work to do the update i guess.
But at the end all whats needed there is a way to add the files and point to them from the manifest file. Not sure if this should even live inside the theme. But we have resource folder i the Plone already for long, it's only that there is not generic UI to manage the files in there. It was build inside the theme editor. If someone will build a new editor or filemanger, i would suggest that it wil be generic and a real replaceplent for portal_skins.
Maybe my question is off topic. But I can't find the answer over the doc / web that's why I ask here.
If I have a plone 5 site with python 3, with a ttw theme and type... Can I direct update to plone 6 without loss anything?
If I have a plone 5 site with python 3, with a ttw theme and type... Can I direct update to plone 6 without loss anything?
What do you mean with 'direct', 'without doing any work/changes to your code base?
Between Plone 5.2 running on Python 3 and Plone 6.0 'classic UI' running on Python 3 the major change has been the update of the generated css/html and the javascript/mockup/patterns.
The used css library/frameowork has received a major update, from bootstrap 3 to bootstrap 5. The Plone theme add'on is still called barceloneta, but all html (templates) have been cleaned up to use bootstrap css classes and html constructs only as much as possible. Also new features like css variables are heavily used now..
Interactivity in the Plone Classic UI in with Javascript has since Plone 5 been decoupled by the use of patterns, that activate on valid html/classes and containers by adding extra attributes. It is somewhat similar to the custom elements standard. The javascript providing / enabling the pattern has been fully modernised to ES6 in Plone 6, and the bundling has been improved and simplified to be only on filesystem. TTW bunding of javascript resources has been removed.
How 'direct' you can update depends on how much of your theme changes the default looks of Plone and how much of the styling depends on classes of html structures that have been changed to Plone 6. And how much 'custom ' javascript you have added to your theme (or maybe updates/overriden patterns). Because these have to be updated.
Also any add add'ons that you have installed will need to have an updated version for Plone 6 to match the changes in theme/javascript, but you didn't list those in your question.
So with a TTW theme it still depends on how much 'customisation' is in there, it's less likely that a lot of javascript customisations are in there. The only way to find is is to do a test with Plone 6.0b3, upgrade your site, but uninstall the theme.
One of our clients is very experienced with CSS and he changed the look and feel of a Plone 6.0 site by only using the custom css styles field/text area in Plone 6.0 Theme settings. Because all html/css classes are now 'bootstrap' defaults there is more consistency and less css needed to override the whole site.
Thanks for your details.
Do you mean I have to remove the theme in the orginal site. Before copy the data.fs to the plone 6 backend？
if there was a paid UX role this would be something that would be part of their duties. to regularly survey or use other methods to work this out and then have a set of representative users they could use to bounce ideas off. PLIPS do not solve this since core developers are not our users.
Before Volto I did all design, theming and views customization TTW and none of my sites look like the vanilla Plone. This (after security) was one of the main reasons why I started using Plone 20 years ago. If you going to keep classic alive, you should keep this feature. I personally I’m abandoning classic and switching to Volto and one of the features I will miss is TTW theme and ZPT.
@rnunez i understand your point, but somebody has to build and maintain features.
I personally have no time and paying customer for this kind of work.
It's the old problem, we want to make Plone better for this kind of use cases, but there is no budget in the market to realize that. Most active Plone developers get payed for improvements on Plone by there clients. Bigger clients don't need these features as they don't touch layout them self and smaller clients don't have the budget i guess.
There are many things higher on my list and most of them are not directly payed by anyone. But they are more important for more users in my opinion.
you don't have to remove the them, but your theme will not great, since quite some markup coming from Plone has changed towards Bootstrap and your Diazo rules will break or not do what you want. Also the default theme is now based on SCSS not LESS, so it would be better for reuseability your theme uses SCSS too.
It's less work to re-implement the theme with new SCSS, a new index.html and updated Diazo rules i guess.