Sure it might be lots of work and there are some decisions to make, so lets make them. Let's not lose sight Plone is a thing you give to non technical users to publish content CMS. If its not flexible enough then why will new people choose Plone? (Headless CMS or python 3 won't make Plone easier to use unfortunately)
I don't really understand the issue but the average user doesn't care if the code inside a tile is really coming from a viewlet. We can leave it as is. We probably have to for backwards compatibility anyway right?
We do it the way Castle does it. We've discussed it before. It seems like a smart approach and its backwards compatible.
We can still keep diazo theming but have it as a transform after mosaic. It can be used to apply css, and alter the html from tiles and plugins. What if site layouts live inside a theme? (perhaps along with some rapido based tiles). Then themer knows what html to have to transform. If the webmaster wants to mess with it, then they can adjust any diazo to suit.
If we really do need to rewrite then lets do it. I have am outsourcing some frontend work to a talented angular 2 developer but that will end soon. Lets crowdfund that work, if it needs to happen. I've already expressed that I think its too soon to pick a angular vs react vs vue, but others might be wiser than me. For me, lets ship the hack and change it later. It's not a component that needs to be customised so it doesn't need to be perfect.
Isn't that just another grid system? It doesn't change that the content editor needs a way to specify their layout and include different kinds of content in the same page. It doesn't really matter if we switch to JS rendering, ESI rendering or server or CSS arrangement, the user still needs to control the layout. I also suspect if we don't do some arrangement server-side then there will be accessibility problems so I suspect css-grid is not the right answer.
They can already. (Well, technically c.themesitesetup only copies them from them into their dedicated resource directory, but it's safer that way.)
We should encourage @espenmn to tell more about their Mosaic usage (with collective.themefragment based tiles with supermodel XML schemas).
Also this is technically all TTW layouts and tiles (technically, we build themes on filesystem, but deploy them as zipped themes to allow updates without restart):
And sorry for stepping outside the topic.
FWT decision sounds good to me. Plone 6 release with mostly just fixes and Python 3 support makes sense to get the existing users past 2020 without too much other surprises.
But nothing prevents to make Plone 7 soon after with Mosaic, if it's ready by then. As I recall, that was also the original plan with Plone 4 and Plone 5. Weren't they supposed to be developed in parallel: Plone 4 being iterative release and Plone 5 revolutionary release with Deco content types.
However this was the same story with Plone 5. Plone 5 was supposed to ship with the whole deco story. The 4 D's. I was just as disappointed then when suddenly going folderless and integrating mosaics got bumped from Plone 5. Making UX decisions that aren't incremental seem to get delayed. No one wants to pull the trigger on changing Plone in any significant way (for the end user)
I totally get why:
No one feels they have the authority
It's hard to point to concrete evidence of a need (but I would argue flat install stats are the evidence)
FWT and most of us on this list never edit content or have to learn how to from the start, so it's not scratching our own itch. Python 3 and headless do. Our intuitions tell us there is no urgent need.
It's lots of work.
It's risky because we can't be sure which are the best changes to make.
All I'm trying to do is counter this with the other side of the argument. Which is
If we keep saying it will be the next release then at which point does Plone become relevant to others outside of the existing community again?
What are we risking by waiting?
Or are we basically saying now that Plone is in maintenance mode now? ie Plones goal is now to serve its existing user base and not grow?
Mosaic is on Steroids: image, video, audio, slider, gallery, social media, queries, document viewer, calendar, etc tiles. I no longer need addons like flowplayer(P4A), lineage, PloneSlimbox, Carousel, fullcalendar
UI/UX is well integrated and intuitive (adding images and attachments) you can publishing images from there
Focal Point: because your editor are not designer
Quality check before publishing: because your editor don't known what a heading is for
Theming is easy and flexible: no need for rules, you can create slots and Fragments anywhere you want. I like Diazo but this is better. I'm eliminating a whole bunch of rules I use to move stuff around the page in places.
Which perhaps aren't needed
I will not be using S3 or CloudFlare at this time. but I would not remove the option.
and I may be using google custom search for the anom search results
Content Creation is simple and intuitive, it allows you to create one or multiple items at the same time in any location of the site (if you have permission), and it will create all the folders necessary for that new path to exist.
A task like creating 4 pages in a new folder is fast and and done from one page in Castle
If you want to achieve the same goal in vanilla Plone you would have to go to the location where you want the new folder, create the folder, then the 1st page you want, then go to the parent folder, then add the second page you want, then back to the parent folder, etc.
I show it to a few users, I always get the same question, when are we upgrading?
only a couple have use it.
I feel the same, may be it should be called Plone-X since at this point it looks like it will be at least version 10.
Plone-X a version of Plone for merely humans, not super programmers.
